Debater Claims Navy Maps Ocean Floor Assuming Flat Earth Before Converting to Globe
"We map it out using Euclidean 3-dimensional Cartesian coordinate systems, right? They assume the datum of sea level to be parallel with the ocean floor. Then they take it into geodesy. They incorporate 7/6R. They fluctuate your ellipsoid as needed."
About this episode
On this episode of Modern Day Debates, host James hosted a contentious flat earth versus globe debate between McToon, an eight-year flat earth debunker who filmed the 24-hour Antarctic sun, and Sully, a TikTok flat earther making his first appearance on the channel. The debate centered on three pre-agreed scientific topics: Coriolis effect, distance measurements on Earth's surface, and sonar propagation. McToon opened by presenting gyroscope measurements showing 10.3 degrees per hour drift at 48 degrees north latitude, closely matching globe predictions, along with laser rangefinder distance measurements from Antarctica and Pensacola Beach that he claimed falsified flat earth distance calculations while confirming globe predictions. Sully dismissed the Antarctic measurements as unverifiable anecdote and focused his case on claims that bathymetric ocean mapping uses flat earth Euclidean geometry before post-processing onto a globe, that microwave transmission models require infinite Earth radius values (effectively flattening the earth), and that aviation treats Earth as flat and stationary. The most heated exchange occurred over an 80-mile LoRaWAN transmission record, with Sully arguing it proved impossible curvature and McToon presenting Navy tropospheric ducting data showing 40% occurrence probability in that region. Sully also presented the 1960 Heard Island experiment where underwater sound traveled 12,300 miles, expecting it to challenge globe theory, but McToon said diffraction easily explains it. McToon repeatedly accused Sully of strawmanning globe predictions, while Sully accused McToon of sophistry and poisoning the well. The debate deteriorated into frequent interruptions and meta-argumentation about debate tactics, with both debaters claiming victory. A post-debate poll allowed the audience to judge who presented more persuasive arguments.
Key takeaways
- McToon presented laser rangefinder measurements from Antarctica showing 67.7 meters matching globe predictions versus 1,124 meters flat earth prediction, which Sully dismissed as anecdotal.
- Gyroscope measurements commissioned by FE Core showed 10.3 degrees per hour drift at 48 degrees north, closely matching the globe-predicted 11.2 degrees Coriolis effect.
- Sully argued bathymetric ocean mapping uses Euclidean geometry and flat Cartesian coordinates before post-processing data onto ellipsoid models with adjusted radius values.
- McToon presented Navy climatology data showing microwave tropospheric ducting occurs 40% of the time in the region of an 80-mile LoRaWAN transmission record.
- Sully claimed aviation flight manuals explicitly state Earth is treated as flat and stationary, which McToon called simplifying assumptions listed because rotation must be accounted for in next steps.
- The 1960 Heard Island underwater sound transmission traveling 12,300 miles was presented by Sully as inexplicable on a globe, but McToon said water diffraction easily allows this.
- Both debaters frequently accused each other of strawman arguments, sophistry, and failing to address core claims, with the debate devolving into meta-argumentation about tactics.