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Intel researcher Jack Kavalieros says ruthenium could outperform copper at around 20nm pitch

By Egleze Editorial Desk · Published October 22, 2026 · Dwarkesh Patel Podcast · What will computer chips look like in 2045?
Intel researcher Jack Kavalieros says ruthenium could outperform copper at around 20nm pitch
Dwarkesh Patel Podcast
Dwarkesh Patel Podcast
What will computer chips look like in 2045?

What was said

"There is a crossover point where ruthenium will have much better conductivity, better resistivity than copper. That’s roughly in the 20-nanometer pitch range."

Jack Kavalieros, speaking during a tour of Intel’s research lab, says copper interconnects face scaling challenges because they typically require a liner layer, which takes up a larger share of the conductor at very small dimensions. He says ruthenium can be etched and may avoid the liner requirement, creating a ‘crossover point’ where it becomes electrically preferable to copper at roughly a 20-nanometre pitch.

Verification status

Attributed speaker claim

Egleze verified who said this and where. The underlying claim has not been independently established by Egleze.

Source and context

Egleze verified who said this and where. The underlying claim has not been independently established by Egleze.

Speaker
Jack Kavalieros · guest
Programme
Dwarkesh Patel Podcast
Episode
What will computer chips look like in 2045?
Clip time
30:28
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Dwarkesh Patel Podcast
Dwarkesh Patel Podcast

What will computer chips look like in 2045?

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