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Francis Fukuyama says Trump relies on personal associates over career diplomats, weakening merit-based state institutions

By Egleze Editorial Desk · Published September 13, 2026 · The Ezra Klein Show · Francis Fukuyama on Trump, China and the Legacy of 9/11 | The Ezra Klein Show
Francis Fukuyama says Trump relies on personal associates over career diplomats, weakening merit-based state institutions
The Ezra Klein Show
The Ezra Klein Show
Francis Fukuyama on Trump, China and the Legacy of 9/11 | The Ezra Klein Show

What was said

"We're doing that right now. You know, instead of professional diplomats handling our Middle East policy, you get Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, you know, two friends and family of uh Donald Trump, and you're paying the price for it because a modern state really does need kind of meritocratic, you know, impersonal uh people running the state apparatus."

Francis Fukuyama argues that modern states require meritocratic, impersonal administration, but says the US is sliding back towards favouring leaders’ personal networks. As an example, he cites Middle East policy being handled by figures such as Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff rather than professional diplomats, and says the public “pays the price” for that shift.

Verification status

Attributed speaker claim

Egleze verified who said this and where. The underlying claim has not been independently established by Egleze.

Source and context

Egleze verified who said this and where. The underlying claim has not been independently established by Egleze.

Speaker
Francis Fukuyama · guest
Programme
The Ezra Klein Show
Episode
Francis Fukuyama on Trump, China and the Legacy of 9/11 | The Ezra Klein Show
Clip time
43:22
Original source
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The Ezra Klein Show
The Ezra Klein Show

Francis Fukuyama on Trump, China and the Legacy of 9/11 | The Ezra Klein Show

September 11, 2026 · 1h 16m · 3 Egleze moments
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