Pasulka alleges “Tyler” told engineers UFO debris was Chinese or Russian
"And he would tell them, he wouldn't say, this is a UFO, or this is something found in the desert. No, no. He would say, this is China's, or this is Russia's, and we need, in order to keep our dominance or whatnot, we need to get this reverse engineered pronto."
About this episode
Joe Rogan interviews religious-studies professor Diana Walsh Pasulka on how Catholic theology, folklore and modern “UFO” testimony intersect, and why some public figures frame UAP as demonic. Pasulka outlines Catholic categories for anomalous events — natural, supernatural and “preternatural” — arguing that some reported encounter patterns resemble older accounts of angels and demons, while stressing that resemblance does not prove identity.
A large section centres on claims of secrecy, disinformation and internal conflict in the US national-security ecosystem around UAP. Pasulka recounts second-hand remarks she attributes to Stanford scientist Gary Nolan about avoiding Skinwalker Ranch because of the “hitchhiker effect”, and she alleges named disinformation figure Richard Doty has admitted spreading false UFO narratives. Rogan and Pasulka discuss the possibility that disclosure is obstructed by the legal and financial exposure of hidden programmes, with Rogan speculating that fraud and misuse of public funds could be a major driver of resistance.
Pasulka also makes several claims about research and recruitment: she says she became aware of highly restricted, government-linked laboratories with elite talent; that Nolan was given access as officials sought his help; and that she herself was asked to brief an inter-agency group of scientists about her work. She further alleges a “Tyler” figure motivated engineers to reverse-engineer purported materials by presenting them as Chinese or Russian rather than extraterrestrial.
The conversation closes on religion-adjacent mysteries (the Shroud of Turin, the Guadalupe tilma) and Pasulka’s new book, which advances a theory that some “ET” narratives could involve advanced AI rather than biological beings.
Key takeaways
- Pasulka describes Catholic theology’s “preternatural” category as one framework used to interpret anomalous experiences, including UAP reports.
- She says some UFO narratives show similarities with older “demonic” encounter accounts, but argues this is only an analogy, not proof.
- Pasulka alleges government-linked disinformation has shaped UFO narratives and names Richard Doty as a known example.
- Rogan speculates that resistance to disclosure and calls for “amnesty” could be tied to fraud, misappropriated funds and lack of oversight in black programmes.
- Pasulka claims she observed signs of highly restricted, government-linked labs and says Gary Nolan was given access because officials were ‘cultivating’ his expertise.
- She says she was asked to brief an inter-agency group of government scientists on the narrative of her UAP research.
- Pasulka alleges a ‘Tyler’ figure told engineers purported debris was Chinese or Russian to speed reverse-engineering work.