Jacobsen says captured al-Qaeda biologist had rabies–chickenpox bioweapon plans
"But what had never been revealed before my book is that in her handbag, she had plans to create a genetically modified pathogen that mixed rabies with chickenpox."
About this episode
Joe Rogan interviews journalist and author Annie Jacobsen about biological weapons risks, pandemic preparedness and the limits of public health messaging. Jacobsen describes reporting for her book on biological war scenarios modelled on Pentagon war games, arguing that government planning focuses heavily on downstream panic, civil disorder and continuity-of-government measures rather than purely medical countermeasures. She outlines, as she recounts being told by former officials, a “devolution plan” tied to a classified continuity-of-government readiness scale (“COGCON”), involving pre-designated officials relocating to hardened sites if normal governance collapses.
Jacobsen also makes quantitative claims about the growth of high-containment laboratories after 9/11, and about the number of BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities in the US and worldwide, warning that biosafety oversight is uneven. She relays a specific allegation from CIA debriefings: that the captured al-Qaeda-linked biologist Aafia Siddiqui carried plans for a genetically modified pathogen combining rabies and chickenpox, which she says was corroborated to her by biodefence adviser David Relman, while further details remained classified.
The conversation returns repeatedly to Covid-19: Rogan criticises Anthony Fauci and media coverage of congressional testimony, while Jacobsen focuses on trust and uncertainty in public health, citing early CDC/WHO statements about airborne transmission and the lack of transparent corrections. Late in the episode, Jacobsen pivots to AI governance, saying DARPA discussions about “AI enabled bio” suggest tech CEOs may hold practical veto power over risky capabilities, and she describes prompting ChatGPT to output what she believed was the location of a Strategic National Stockpile site before the output was removed. The episode briefly touches on UFOs, with Jacobsen reiterating her view that past sightings were often used as cover for classified flight testing and disinformation.
Key takeaways
- Jacobsen alleges Aafia Siddiqui carried plans for an engineered rabies–chickenpox pathogen, saying Relman confirmed the documents existed.
- She describes a continuity-of-government “devolution plan” and a classified readiness scale she calls “COGCON”, attributing details to a former FEMA director.
- Jacobsen claims the US and global counts of BSL-3/BSL-4 labs have expanded sharply post-9/11, and asserts most BSL-3 sites lack safety guidelines.
- She argues early CDC/WHO communications overstated surface transmission and delayed acknowledgment of airborne spread, undermining trust.
- Jacobsen says DARPA discussions reflect concern about “AI enabled bio” and that private AI CEOs may control key safety decisions.
- She describes jailbreaking ChatGPT to produce a purported Strategic National Stockpile location and says the capability was later curtailed.