DeStefano Says Jesus Was Probably Wrong About Adam and Eve
"If it was the case that they believed that God literally made two people and plopped them on the earth first, yes, yes, I would say yes, that he was wrong about that."
About this episode
In a heated three-hour debate hosted by Modern Day Debate, Eastern Orthodox Christian Andrew Wilson clashed with progressive writer Matthew DeStefano over whether churches should accept openly LGBTQ individuals and relationships. The debate quickly moved beyond theological exegesis into fundamental questions about authority, power, and the nature of Christian ethics itself. DeStefano opened by conceding he is 'post-Christian' rather than traditionally Christian, admitting he rejects key doctrines including Trinitarian theology and the historical accuracy of Genesis. Wilson, representing traditional Christianity, argued that the church has consistently rejected homosexual practice for 2,500 years and has no obligation to change its standards to accommodate a minority. The core revelation came when both debaters acknowledged their positions ultimately reduce to competing preferences in a struggle for political power. Wilson openly advocated for Christian nationalism to legislate against gay marriage, while DeStefano admitted he wants progressive power to legislate for LGBTQ inclusion, with neither able to establish objective moral superiority beyond personal preference. DeStefano blamed the church for causing harm to LGBTQ individuals through rejection and stigmatization, while Wilson blamed the LGBTQ movement for causing social destabilization, particularly citing the transgender movement and debates over child transitions as evidence of the 'slippery slope.' The debate featured extensive back-and-forth on whether Christianity's ethical system is derived from the Bible alone or from broader tradition, with DeStefano appealing to mimetic theory and scapegoating while Wilson defended patriarchal church structure and apostolic succession. Both participants engaged in provocative rhetoric, with Wilson defending past inflammatory statements and DeStefano challenging Wilson's selective application of biblical standards. The debate ended with mutual acknowledgment that the dispute cannot be resolved through rational argument alone, but will ultimately be determined by which faction gains sufficient political power to impose its vision on society.
Key takeaways
- DeStefano conceded he is post-Christian and not a traditional believer, rejecting Trinity and viewing Genesis as mythology rather than history.
- Wilson directly blamed the transgender movement and child transition debates on LGBTQ advocacy infrastructure as proof of social destabilization.
- Both debaters ultimately agreed their positions reduce to competing preferences in a race for political power rather than objective moral truth.
- Wilson openly advocated for Christian nationalists to legislate against gay marriage if voted into office through democratic processes.
- DeStefano argued LGBTQ youth suicide rates result from church and family rejection rather than acceptance of homosexuality itself.
- Wilson challenged DeStefano to explain why teen suicide was lower when stigma was higher in the 1950s versus today.
- DeStefano stated Jesus was wrong if he literally believed God created Adam and Eve as historical figures.