Joe Rogan interviews Harvard geneticist David Sinclair about ageing biology, gene therapy and the use of AI in drug discovery. Sinclair says a three-gene ‘OSK’ epigenetic reprogramming approach is being tested in an FDA-approved human clinical trial in the eye for glaucoma and other sudden-vision-loss conditions, and claims he witnessed the first patient dosed earlier this year with no adverse events reported so far. He describes a ‘virus-like’ capsule used to deliver the genes and argues ageing reflects loss of cellular ‘identity’ that can be reset.
Sinclair also makes several forward-looking and contested claims: he says his lab has a ‘top secret’ three-part drink cocktail that rejuvenates older mice within four weeks, and suggests reprogramming could restore cognitive performance in animals and possibly retrieve lost memories. He alleges NAION-related sudden blindness has ‘doubled’ in association with GLP-1 drugs, citing Harvard ophthalmologist Joe Rizzo while noting correlation does not prove causation.
On safety, Sinclair says long-term OSK expression did not increase tumours in mice and claims tumours shrank in mice bearing human cancers when the genes were activated, though he does not cite a published paper during the episode. He says AI has dramatically reduced the time needed to screen potential drug candidates, and recounts a 19-year-old using AI to identify evidence for his ‘backup copy of youth’ theory in existing datasets.
The conversation also touches on research funding: Sinclair says his Harvard lab’s federal funding was cut during a dispute between the university and government, pushing the group towards donations. Rogan and Sinclair discuss fasting, exercise, red light therapy, and the social determinants of longevity, including relationship stress and isolation.
Sinclair claims the US government stopped a foreign investment into one of his companies over concerns the underlying technology could be used for ‘super soldiers’. When pressed on the country involved, he identifies it as Russia, without providing further details on the decision or agency involved.
Read this moment →David Sinclair alleges GLP-1 medicines are linked to a reported doubling in sudden blindness from a condition he refers to as “NION”. He describes it as like a stroke in the eye, says the second eye can also be affected, and adds that correlation does not equal causation while citing Joe Rizzo’s work.
Read this moment →Sinclair says a PhD student in his lab observed tumour shrinkage in mice after switching on the same three ‘OSK’ genes used in his age-reversal work, including in models described as human cancers growing in mice. He also says long-term exposure in mice did not increase tumours and may have reduced them, though he does not cite a publication or dataset during the episode.
Read this moment →Sinclair says AI tools helped his lab complete work in a couple of months that would otherwise have taken about 160 years. He does not specify the task in the excerpt, beyond linking it to candidate molecules for a drink and pill his group is developing.
Read this moment →Sinclair says his lab has a three-component ‘cocktail’ given as a drink to mice that produces measurable rejuvenation effects within four weeks. He describes the formulation as ‘top secret’ and says the protocol involved dosing three days a week, with improvements seen in physical performance and memory tests.
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