Ezra Klein speaks with journalist Jasmine Sun about the fast-growing backlash to hyperscale AI data centres in the United States, following her reporting trip to Wisconsin and Michigan. Sun describes objections that go beyond noise, aesthetics and resource use, arguing that secrecy in siting negotiations—particularly non-disclosure agreements involving local officials—has fuelled distrust and helped online rumours outpace public process. She says Microsoft has stopped using NDAs in response to backlash and that other AI labs may follow.
The pair explore the material footprint of AI, with Sun arguing that while newer facilities often use closed-loop cooling that reduces water draw, electricity demand is substantial and may require new generation, likely gas in the near term. Sun also recounts local fears of “stranded assets” shaped by earlier megaproject disappointments, including Foxconn in Mount Pleasant, and describes a Michigan township dispute in which developers sued after a council voted against rezoning.
Klein and Sun connect the infrastructure fight to broader “AI populism”: scepticism that AI’s benefits justify its costs, anger at perceived elite imposition, and concern about labour displacement. Sun says many Silicon Valley figures privately expect AI to worsen inequality and entertains scenarios of a permanent underclass, while Klein questions the industry’s “race” framing and its policy implications. The discussion closes on geopolitics and regulation: Sun contrasts US politics with China’s tighter controls in some areas and dismisses claims that the US data-centre backlash is primarily a Chinese influence operation.
Jasmine Sun says China has moved to bar or limit some companion chatbots and that court rulings have made AI replacement an insufficient reason for redundancies. She contrasts this with what she describes as a more laissez-faire US national approach to AI’s social and labour impacts.
Read this moment →After Klein notes claims that China and Russia have amplified anti-data-centre content online, Sun says she reviewed an OpenAI report alleging a “CCP plot” and found the cited social posts had minimal engagement. She argues the backlash she reported on in the Midwest appeared “very organic” and warns against treating domestic opponents as merely misinformed or manipulated.
Read this moment →Sun says that in conversations about speeding up data-centre construction, some executives and operators have framed community-benefit negotiations in blunt terms, including using the word “bribe”. She presents this as evidence that parts of the industry are focused on overcoming local resistance through financial inducements rather than addressing deeper concerns about AI’s value and risks.
Read this moment →Journalist Jasmine Sun tells The Ezra Klein Show that Microsoft has decided to stop using non-disclosure agreements in local data-centre negotiations after community backlash. She adds that people managing compute at other AI labs are considering similar changes, portraying NDAs as a flashpoint that worsened distrust in siting processes.
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