Marine Admits Killing Iraqi Civilians Building Wall After Mistaking Them for IED Emplacers
"They weren't digging an IED. They were building a wall. They were building a wall for their family. The thing that they were putting into the ground were cinder blocks."
About this episode
In this episode of The Sean Ryan Show, host Sean Ryan interviews former Marine Scout Sniper and Reconnaissance Marine AJ Pashutti about his 21-year career spanning multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Pashutti opens by discussing his new book 'Dark Horse,' describing it as a love letter to the people who shaped his military journey rather than a self-aggrandizing memoir. The son of immigrants who grew up in poverty in Northern California, Pashutti enlisted after 9/11 despite having no military background or family tradition of service. He deployed to Iraq three times, including the 2003 invasion and the brutal Battle of Fallujah in 2004, where he served as a probationary sniper. His most significant accomplishment came in June 2006 when he killed the enemy sniper known as Juba, who had been terrorizing U.S. forces using an M40A1 rifle captured from four killed Marines in 2004. Pashutti spotted a Sony Handycam in a vehicle near an observation post and engaged after a tense standoff, later discovering the rifle bore American ammunition and serial numbers. He insisted the rifle be displayed at the Marine Corps Museum under the name of the original owner, Corporal Tommy Parker, rather than his own. The conversation takes a darker turn as Pashutti recounts killing two Iraqi civilians he mistook for IED emplacers, an incident he describes as his deepest regret despite being within rules of engagement. In Afghanistan, Pashutti lost his best friend and fiercest rival, Staff Sergeant Matt Ingham, when restrictive ROE prevented Ingham from engaging 40-50 Taliban fighters who subsequently ambushed and killed him and two other Marines in January 2010. Pashutti details the impossible choice he faced that day between abandoning his position to help Ingham or staying to protect an infantry assault. Throughout, he emphasizes the bond between warfighters and criticizes politicians who send troops into ambiguous conflicts without clear objectives, while maintaining deep reverence for the 'grunts' and riflemen who bear the heaviest burden of war.
Key takeaways
- Pashutti killed enemy sniper Juba in June 2006 using intelligence from pattern analysis, recovering an M40A1 rifle stolen from Marines killed in 2004.
- He killed two Iraqi civilians building a wall after mistaking them for IED emplacers, an incident that still haunts him despite being within ROE.
- His best friend Staff Sergeant Matt Ingham was killed in Afghanistan after ROE prevented him from engaging Taliban fighters and air support was denied.
- Pashutti was trapped in a burning MRAP after an IED strike and prepared to shoot himself before Lance Corporal Chris O'Connor rescued him across an IED field.
- A Marine sniper instructor deliberately protected Pashutti from detection during a stalking exercise by standing on him and denying his presence to spotters.
- He argues the U.S. repeatedly sends troops with 'a rifle and a rulebook' into wars with unclear objectives, sacrificing warriors for political failures.
- Pashutti credits mentors like Gunnery Sergeant Ricky Jackson with changing his life trajectory and emphasizes paying mentorship forward to younger Marines.