Catholic Bishop Says Country Has Right to Defend Borders but Deportations Too Blunt
"Country has a right to defend its borders. I mean, so I don't subscribe to open border policy. That's against Catholic teaching. At the same time, whatever enforcement we do must be done humanely. Going after all people who are in the country in undocumented status through ICE deportations, I would suggest that's too blunt an instrument."
About this episode
Dave Rubin sat down with Bishop Robert Barron in Rochester, Minnesota, for an extended two-part conversation covering religion, politics, culture, and the intersection of faith with public life. Barron, a prominent Catholic bishop and evangelist, revealed the Catholic origins of the Mayo Clinic, recounting how Franciscan nun Mother Alfred insisted on building a world-class hospital in 1880s rural Minnesota after a tornado devastated the town. The conversation turned to contemporary politics, with Barron telling Rubin that Donald Trump has done more for religious liberty than any president in his lifetime, citing the Religious Liberty Commission and Supreme Court appointments that overturned Roe v. Wade. Barron suggested Trump underwent a spiritual transformation after the Butler assassination attempt. On immigration, Barron affirmed Catholic teaching supports border security and opposes open borders, but argued mass ICE deportations are too blunt an instrument and urged humane enforcement targeting criminals. The bishop identified wokeism as his primary concern, calling it a spiritual sickness rooted in Nietzsche, Marx, and Foucault that divides society and undermines objective truth and religion. He warned clergy who embrace it under the banner of social justice are making a serious error. Barron also discussed interfaith relations, the decline of religious affiliation in America, his use of digital media for evangelization, concerns about AI outsourcing human thinking, and his experience at Charlie Kirk's memorial, which he described as 90 percent religious and deeply moving. Throughout, Barron emphasized the Catholic commitment to civil dialogue, nonviolence, and the both-and principle that allows for strong convictions alongside openness to conversation with ideological opponents.
Key takeaways
- Barron told Trump directly he has done more for religious liberty than any president in Barron's lifetime, citing the Religious Liberty Commission and Roe v. Wade reversal.
- Barron identified wokeism as a spiritual sickness rooted in critical theory that divides society and is fundamentally opposed to religion and objective truth.
- Barron affirmed Catholic teaching supports border security and opposes open borders but called mass ICE deportations too blunt, urging humane enforcement and political solutions.
- Barron revealed the Mayo Clinic was founded by Franciscan nun Mother Alfred who raised $40,000 in the 1880s to build a hospital for the entire world.
- Barron described Charlie Kirk's 100,000-person memorial as 90 percent religious with politicians speaking about Jesus, calling it an extraordinary spiritual experience.
- Barron suggested Trump underwent a spiritual shift after the Butler assassination attempt, with those close to him witnessing a keener sense of religious mission.
- Barron warned clergy embracing wokeism under the guise of social justice are making a serious mistake that threatens Christianity and American civic life.