What happened in this episode?
Julian Dorey interviews Washington Post journalist and two-time Pulitzer winner Joby Warrick about his reporting for a new book on Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, better known as Carlos the Jackal. Warrick outlines how Carlos became an emblematic figure in the 1970s–80s wave of international terrorism, and describes his own March 2025 prison visit to Carlos in France after a prolonged authorisation process. Warrick says French authorities only allowed the meeting under tight restrictions, including no recording equipment and limits on extended verbatim quotation.
Warrick recounts intelligence-era anecdotes he says he heard from Jordanian sources, including claims that Jordanian officials at one point cultivated contact with Carlos in Amman rather than arrest him immediately, using alcohol-fuelled meetings to elicit operational stories—an approach Warrick suggests later drew controversy for not promptly alerting US partners. He also discusses how earlier interviews with Carlos were allegedly obtained through unconventional means, including visits arranged under non-journalistic cover and a telephone relay via an attorney.
The conversation briefly turns to policy consequences in Syria: Warrick argues sanctions helped remove legitimate revenue streams for the Assad regime and that Captagon production grew as a major alternative income source, describing Syria as becoming a large-scale narco-state, while cautioning against claiming a simple direct causal line. Dorey and Warrick also talk through narrative non-fiction craft, deadlines, and Warrick’s decision to take a buyout from the Post and continue as a contributing writer.
