What happened in this episode?
Joe Rogan speaks with author and researcher Siddharth Kara about labour exploitation and environmental harm linked to the mining of cobalt and other battery minerals in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and about Kara’s new book on the Zong massacre and the origins of British abolitionism. Kara says he cannot return to the Congo after colleagues warned of a “bounty” for him, but claims ongoing research has quantified deforestation in the copper–cobalt belt and severe water contamination. He estimates that on any given day roughly 300,000 people, including around 30,000 children, are engaged in artisanal cobalt mining and that more than one-third work in conditions he describes as “absolute slavery”.
The conversation turns to geopolitics and supply chains dominated by Chinese state-linked companies. Kara relays unverified claims from Congolese sources that uranium is exported to China alongside other minerals, and he links this to questions about China’s expanding nuclear stockpile, while stressing he cannot substantiate the allegation. He also says a US firm, Virtuous Mining, has entered the region recently, which he connects to a minerals-for-peace arrangement, and reports second-hand claims of improved standards.
Kara then recounts the mechanics of the Atlantic slave trade, the Zong case’s insurance litigation, and how public exposure fuelled abolition campaigns. He argues that modern consumer technologies can reproduce similar patterns of hidden coercion, and he discusses reparations, including Britain’s compensation of slave owners and the long repayment of the associated loan. Rogan and Kara also speculate on whether AI governance and automation could reduce conflict and hazardous labour, while warning of new risks.
