Olivia Fox Cabane, author of The Charisma Myth, tells Dax Shepard and Monica Padman that she was diagnosed as autistic in her 40s after revisiting childhood notes from a psychologist who, she says, described traits now associated with autism but did not diagnose her because “girls don’t have autism” was then a prevailing view. She argues that charisma is largely behavioural and teachable, describing the research shift around 2011 that she says helped establish this, and sets out her core model of charisma as a combination of presence, power and warmth.
Cabane emphasises that first impressions form in seconds and are heavily influenced by non-verbal cues; she recommends “inside-out” methods to shift body language by changing mental state rather than attempting to consciously control gestures. A substantial portion of the conversation centres on autistic masking: she defines it as code-switching to appear neurotypical and warns that prolonged masking, especially for autistic women, can be linked to burnout, depression and suicidal ideation, while stressing she is not an autism specialist.
She also discusses the replication crisis in psychology and says she updated the book’s science, citing “power posing” as a case where later work supported changes in internal state but not hormonal claims. Turning to digital communication, she relays emerging research on vocal dynamics and says small vocal changes may affect perceptions of competence and even audience growth online, while compressed audio can distort emotional cues. The episode closes with Cabane describing reader feedback on the book’s unexpected global reach, including an anecdote about its use during an earthquake response in Turkey.
Cabane says she has become increasingly worried that public attention, rather than merit, is rewarded across modern media and professional life. She says this is one reason she wants charisma training to be more widely available, to “level the playing field”.
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